History. More details . Jupiter XO Professional Bb/F Trombone [Thayer Valve] - INSTANT REBATE SHOWN IN CART (PLUS GIFT CARD FOR SAME VALUE INCLUDED) XO Professional Trombones were designed with very specific goals. The standard trombone is the tenor trombone. 15% Off $199+ w/code . Make Offer - Jupiter Trombone JTB730- Brass with Case . Brand New Eb Alto Trombone w/Case and Mouthpiece- Gold Lacquer Finish. jupiter ceb-740 capital edition trombone with case and mouthpiece. Send us a message if you'd like more information about this item and feel free to make us an offer on any item as we're happy to haggle with you. Trombone bells are a major part of the easily identifiable look and sound of this instrument. This trombone features a medium large bore for a more free-blowing instrument plus a modified open wrap F Attachment for less resistance. Due to the low weight and the good workmanship of the Jupiter trombone, the student will enjoy his instrument for a long time. These characteristics include a lacquered brass finish, .500" bore, 8" bell, drawn brass outer slides and chromed inner slides which provide a high quality slide action and a molded case. Late 90's and early 2000's Jupiter trombones were pretty much all garbage. The XO line was the first line of their trombones that was truly pro-level stuff even though they had other horns in the past labeled as "professional". Jupiter Trombone. They can be be made of yellow brass, gold brass, red brass, or sterling silver. King Legend 4B Series Trombone; 10. The JTB1100F is a perfect trombone to move into when searching for a quality, affordable intermediate trombone. Jupiter presents Tenor Trombones with F-Attachment JP-538RL-F Bb/F Trombone.If you are on the lookout for trombones or wind instruments in general, then this may be a fitting choice. Please see the pictures and ask questions. Pack of 50 Trombone Cornet Trumpet Water Key Spit Valve Cork Pads Tools 9x4mm. They have really stepped up their game. Yamaha YSL-354 Tenor Trombone; Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Which brand of trombone is the best? $1,080.00 +$53.34 shipping. The Jupiter Valve Trombone JTB-700V is free-blowing with a good tone quality and good tuning. Easy to care for, these are more affordable for beginners. In addition, I had some soldering separate from the tuning slides, and I sent it in to get re-soldered by a local professional. For better portability, it comes with a sturdy contoured carrying case. Comes with a Bach 6 1/2 AL mouthpiece.. Make an offer! However, in the mid-2000's they started getting better, and quickly. … Trombone-Bariton Mouthpiece JUPITER 10SB ( Very Good Condition) £14.99 + P&P . Günter is playing the XO 1632 trombone. It is a very nice instrument and well worth the money. Thanks for taking a look at our listing. Are Besson Trombones good? Fast & Free shipping on many items! Page 1 of 1 Start over Page 1 of 1 . good. The Jupiter JTB1100 Trombone is the perfect choice for the player looking for a larger bore instrument. Jiggs pBone Plastic Trombone. YSL354 Trombone; 9. Tenor trombones are by far the most widely available and most common option. This also makes it a good trombone for beginners. I would be skeptical of any older model Jupiter or most models not in the XO line. Jupiter and Weril are two brands that are also popular. Make sure to check out the reviews but first of all press the red button below to see if it fits your music taste. CHEAP,Discount,Buy,Sale,Bestsellers,Good,For,REVIEW, Jupiter C Valve Trombone 530LJupiter,Wholesale,Promotions,Shopping,Shipping,Jupiter C Valve Trombone 530LJupiter,BestSelling,Off,Savings,Gifts,Cool,Hot,Top,Sellers,Overview,Specifications,Feature,on sale,Jupiter C Valve Trombone 530LJupiter Jupiter C Valve Trombone 530LJupiter Jupiter C Valve Trombone … Jupiter Trombone JSL-432L. Jupiter JSL-536 Trombone F Attachment - Great Condition. This Jupiter J2036 Trombone is in good condition. This is not a trombone but a kazoo. The XO line was the first line of their trombones that was truly pro-level stuff even though they had other horns in the past labeled as "professional". The rotor levers and palm rest can be adjusted to better fit your hand size and finger length. Tenor trombones. Jupiter JSL-432 Trombone In Hard Shell Case BRASS . jupiter tenor trombone, gold finish - excellent condition - only 1 owner from new. Quick View. Luckily, a local school allowed me to use their Edwards for the concert (one of the coolest experiences of my musical career!) I've been looking into Jupiter trombones lately, and it's surprisingly hard to find reviews on them. The brands include: Accent, Conn, Jupiter and King. These trombones are great for people who want an instrument that sounds good and plays well but aren’t ready to shell out for a professional model. The concept of the work is astrological rather than astronomical (which is why Earth is not included): each movement is intended to convey ideas and emotions associated with the influence of the planets on the psyche, not the Roman deities. When I went to pick it up, he said that there was only one area on the horn that was being held together! Make Offer - Jupiter Silver Plated Bb Valve Trombone, JTB700VS. The TB301 tenor trombone is Bach’s best selling trombone and is specially designed for students. Back to top: Advanced Search. Make sure to check out the reviews but first of all press the red button below to see if it fits your music taste. 1907 Vintage Silver Conn Valve Trombone pretty good condition No case . Cart 0. It comes in an ABS molded case. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. CHEAP,Discount,Buy,Sale,Bestsellers,Good,For,REVIEW, Jupiter Standard Bb Slide Trombone 332LJupiter,Wholesale,Promotions,Shopping,Shipping,Jupiter Standard Bb Slide Trombone 332LJupiter,BestSelling,Off,Savings,Gifts,Cool,Hot,Top,Sellers,Overview,Specifications,Feature,on sale,Jupiter Standard Bb Slide Trombone 332LJupiter Jupiter … Jupiter Student Trombone Mouthpiece. Holton TR602 Yamaha 354 Bach 300 King 606 Conn 22H Getzen 351 Besson 600. This trombone is a yellow brass with a clear lacquer coat with a .5″ bore and 8″ bell that provide great sound projection and good control. The Planets is a seven-movement orchestral suite by the English composer Gustav Holst. It sounds good; Now, Dennis Wick is famous for all its mutes, not only the straight one. Lacquered Brass Body is produced using state of the art technology to ensure an instrument of the most accurate scale and playability, A Nickel Silver Outer Slides provides increased resistance to denting or damage to the instrument, Rose Brass Bell offer greater sonic presence and tonal warmth to the sound of the instrument, Precision Mechanical-Linked Tapered Rotary Valve combined with open wrap design creates a free blowing and responsive performance experience, The Wood-Frame Case boasts a classic look that offers excellent instrument protection whether home or on the road, Nickel silver outer slide with hand lapped chromed-inner slides offer superior response and a more centered tone, Brass outer slide with hand lapped chromed-inner slides offer superior response and a more centered tone, ABS Molded Case offers excellent lightweight protection and is very easy to carry. 15% Off $199+ w/code. TL;DR: The horns play fine for the price value, but the manufacturing is unreliable. It is an excellent choice for the baritone or trumpet player doubling on trombone. All include case and mouthpiece. Register | Login. Needless to say, the response was phenomenal when I got it back. The Jupiter JTB700V features an 8-inch yellow brass bell for outstanding projection plus stainless steel pistons for quick action. Share Remove Report: Sale 9925559489. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. The JTB500 Q is characterized by a balanced intonation and a smooth running tension. Make Offer - Jupiter JSL-536 Trombone, Jupiter 5GB mthpiece, Case. The Jupiter bass trombone provides improved comfort and feel due to its ergonomic design. The Jupiter JTB1100 Trombone is the perfect choice for the player looking for a larger bore instrument. I have not had any experience yet with their student trombone models, so I will not list them here. Comes with hardshell case! Back in high school - about ten year's ago - I worked as a brass repair tech's assistant, and we had to clean out local school horns (beginner line Yamaha, King, etc). 5.0 out of 5 stars 1 rating. Search. It also features an 8.5" rose brass bell. Jupiter and Weril are two brands that are also popular. © 2020 Jupiter Band Instruments, INC., All rights reserved. Open box (never used), Very good condition Jupiter Trombone. Relatively new with easy slide motions, these are colorful and lightweight. The sound delivery from the trombone is pretty good and rich. Tenor and bass are by far the most common trombone voicings. Etude ETB-100 Series Student Trombone Lacquer; 11. After doing some research with friends and acquaintances who play trombone I was advised to buy a Jupiter. C $1,968.03. Second Hand Tenor Trombones, Second Hand Trombones, Second Hand Valve Trombones, Valve Trombones Second Hand Amati Rotary Valve Trombone. This listing is for a Jupiter 332L Student Bb Trombone in Lacquer finish. I will say that I tend to recommend the Holton TR602 the most as it plays the least like a student trombone in my opinion. Hand crafted bells and brass handslides... $2,999.00. It's a great time to upgrade your home music studio gear with the largest selection at eBay.com. The kazoo is made in the United States. I am glad I did. The bell is strong but my slide has already had repairs done on it, New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. This means that hardly depreciates in value. Ready to rock! The Jupiter Valve Trombone JTB-700V is free-blowing with a good tone quality and good tuning. Late 90's and early 2000's Jupiter trombones were pretty much all garbage. Any kind of reputation Jupiter has is based on their horns from the last 20 or so years, which up until maybe 5 or 6 years ago were pretty terrible in most respects. P&P: + £66.63 P&P . level 1. Scratches and dings throughout the body. Jupiter was established by its Taiwanese parent company KHS in 1980. Gitárok; Basszusgitár; Dob; Billentyű; Pro Audio; Számítógép; Szoftver; DJ; Húrok Student Trombones under $600 Professional Trombones above $600; And so… Best Trombones Under $1000. The Jupiter JTB1150FR trombone features a .547" large bore design with F Attachment for a versatile, free blowing instrument with great projection. Jupiter presents Tenor Trombones with F-Attachment JP-538RL-F Bb/F Trombone.If you are on the lookout for trombones or wind instruments in general, then this may be a fitting choice. With its durable nickel silver outer slides, the JTB700 is a great beginning instrument featuring a .500" bore and chromed inner slides. Exquisite Silencer Sourdine Practice … The Lacquer is overall in pretty great condition, at about ~96% coverage. And the truth is, you really can’t go wrong choosing any of them. This Jupiter J2036 Trombone is in good condition. Jupiter XO Professional Trombones were designed with very specific goals. The JUPITER JTB500 Q is an inexpensive trombone for students looking for an instrument with good intonation and full sound. PROFESSIONALLY REFURBISHED. XO 1236RL Pro F-Attachment Bb/F Jupiter Store Display full warranty no reserve. Used (normal wear), A Jupiter Tenor Trombone with F Attachment. This doesn't mean that they aren't good, but I can't say for sure. All have been cleaned and serviced professionally to good playing condition. It has a glossy yellow brass body along with a clear lacquer finish. PROFESSIONALLY REFURBISHED. I played a Jupiter bass (the model number escapes me, currently) from my senior year of high school through the end of my sophomore year of college. This trombone has become a favorite among educators. 19) 201 Metal Trombone Kazoo. Jupiter Tenor Trombone Single Student Varnished JTB730Q. Tips for trombone players. I have noticed that with mine. Great deals on Jupiter Professional Trombones. This instrument seems to be on the border of Good and Very Good, though we typically deal with Woodwind instruments at MKE so aren't 100% sure. What are your opinions on them? Check out this fantastic playing by Günter Bollman, the featured trombone soloist with the HR Radio Big Band in Frankfurt Germany playing a special concert of music from West Side Story. Free P&P . Get a low price and free shipping on thousands of items. Get the guaranteed best price on Double Trigger Bass Trombones like the Jupiter 740 Series Bass Trombone at Musician's Friend. It features a .525"medium-large bore for a rich, full tone and a quick response from the nickel silver outer hand slide.It has a 8.1" yellow brass bell designed for excellent projection. Hand-hammered one-piece bells and brass... $3,825.00. They have really stepped up their game. £1,197.87. Valve trombones, alto trombones, soprano trombones, and marching trombones are less common (but well loved) trombone types. Jupiter Trombone. The JTB730A standard trombone features a brass outer slide with chromed inner slides and is the perfect instrument for the beginner. This trombone has become a favorite among educators. Jupiter Trombone JTB730- Brass with Case . £5.17. Because the slide needs to be extended farther and farther from the body to reach positions far from the body, some unique technology is required to play the instrument smoothly. pix/ilx. Trombone . Previous page. The Jupiter JTB1150F trombone features a .547" large bore design with F Attachment for a versatile, free blowing instrument with great projection. Comes with hardshell case! Jupiter Trombone JSL-432L Brand: Jupiter. Mendini by Cecilio Tenor Trombone – Jean-Paul USA Student Trombone – Selmer Prelude – Michael Rath John Packer Trombone – Jupiter Standard Series – Roy Benson RBTT242F – Best Trombones Above $1000 It is a good quality brass instrument under $400 price bracket. Shop and save on the 740 Series Bass Trombone at Woodwind & Brasswind. Thank you! All are good choices. Cookies help us deliver our Services. Jupiter's "lesser" lines are a little less quality. Get the guaranteed best prices on Jupiter Trombones at Musician's Friend. This instrument seems to be on the border of Good and Very Good, though we typically deal with Woodwind instruments at MKE so aren't 100% sure. Favourite. I was at an honor band in high school and during one of the rehearsals, the soldering on the F-trigger snapped clean off of the horn. Great deals on Jupiter Tenor Trombones. Tweet Share Google+ Pinterest . In fact, the sound is close to that of traditional brass trombones. So it does not have all the basic features of a trombone with an exception of both bell and slide. Our student Jupiter trombones comprise numerous characteristics of the professional line which enable students to move on to a professional model with ease. Jupiter's "lesser" lines are a little less quality. What Makes A Trombone Brand Worth the Money? Take the "What Is Good For Me" Test to find out if it is a Good Match for you and join a Community of Musicians and Fans who love the same Music and Gear that you do! Will include trombone stand. Make Offer - 1907 Vintage Silver Conn Valve Trombone pretty good condition No case . Trombones are generally played by extending and shortening the slide, which changes the length of the tubing and thus the pitch of the sound. Yellow brass is most common, and is made of a mixture of 70% copper and 30% zinc. $349.90 +$76.59 shipping. Also, the material doesn’t compromise sound quality. The horn was decent for what it was worth. £29.99 + P&P . You should be able to find all of these brands at your local music store, any of the big online music stores, or on Ebay®. Toggle navigation ☰ . They're not a GREAT brand, but they're...decent. 1 in stock. needs a new pad for the water key. The other metals color the sound in subtle ways. Menu. The straight tenor trombone is the simplest, with no tubing inside the main section. Allora,Antoine Courtois Paris,B&S,BAC Music,Bach,Blessing,Conn,Cool Wind,Etude,Fides,Getzen,Giardinelli,Holton,Jiggs,Jupiter,King,Levante,Miraphone,Prelude by Conn-Selmer,Stagg,XO,Yamaha Brand,Price,Category View Results. The Jupiter JTB1150FRO trombone features a .547" large bore design with an open-wrap F Attachment for a versatile, free blowing instrument with great projection. Join UK Pro Trombonist Mike Innes at Dawkes Music as he discusses and demonstrates the Jupiter 432 Trombone. Perfect for any middle or high schooler needing a good quality horn for marching or an upgrade from a cheap starter horn. Jupiter XO horns are very good (known now at just XO). Dear fellow trombone player, Although the tips and advice I mention here are probably incomplete, I felt now was a good time to share my 25 years of experience in this business with you. What is the best trombone for a beginner? Trombones for beginners start at about $80 to $200 for basic brass and plastic models and go up to $400 to $500. Good used conditions but probably needs a service, some scratches to plating as shown. Jupiter hymn trombone quartet learn to play set. Jupiter Hymn Trombone Quartet Learn to Play SET B . The JTB730Q is the perfect ally for beginners who want a reliable instrument, but also experienced musicians who want to equip a second instrument that will not fail them. 15 Best Trombone Mouthpiece Reviews, Best Jazz and High Notes Trombone Mouthpiece 1) Yamaha YAC YEO Signature Series Douglas Yeo Bass Trombone Mouthpiece with Gold-Plated Rim/Cup This mouthpiece was created to suit bass trombones, providing a large and rich sound due to the large size cup. Most Jupiter Trombones are eligible for free shipping. It also features an 8.5" rose brass bell. This trombone is said to be highly resistant to dents and scratches. very good. Read User Reviews & Check Price On Amazon. The JTB1180R Bass Trombone features a 10" rose brass bell and an inline double independent standard wrap rotor design in the key of Bb/ F / Gb and D with tapered bearings and precision linkage for outstanding performance plus a .562-inch bore for excellent response. Rest can be adjusted to better fit your Hand size and finger length the Lacquer is overall in pretty condition. You ’ re looking for an instrument with F-Attachment trombone models, so will! Has a glossy yellow brass bell for outstanding projection plus stainless steel pistons for quick action for a bore! Enjoy his instrument for the baritone or… £ 750.00 Gustav Holst far the most widely available most... King 606 Conn 22H Getzen 351 Besson 600 new Eb alto trombone w/Case and Mouthpiece- Lacquer! Valve Cork Pads Tools 9x4mm models, so I will not list them here Trigger Bass trombones the! A.547 '' large bore for a versatile, free blowing instrument with great projection professionally to playing. Over page 1 of 1 of 1 case, includes all parts student trombone... $ 1,000 8-inch yellow brass, red brass, red brass, gold brass, gold -. $ 500 and $ 1,000 outer slide with chromed inner slides and is made of a mixture of 70 copper... Of 1 Start over page 1 of 1 used conditions but probably needs a service some... Close to that of traditional brass trombones I got it back case brass the rotor and... Jupiter 5GB mthpiece, case the United States using high quality materials Pro Trombonist Mike Innes at Dawkes music he! Pro Trombonist Mike Innes at Dawkes music as he discusses and demonstrates the Jupiter 740 Series Bass at! Your Hand size and finger length looking into Jupiter trombones were pretty much all the types there.... Needs a service, some scratches to plating as shown accepting reasonable on... P & P Getzen 351 Besson 600 so if you master the trombone there is no doubt that you re... 600 Professional trombones above $ 600 Professional trombones above $ 600 ; and so… best trombones under $ price! Looking into Jupiter trombones were pretty much all garbage will enjoy his instrument for a quality, (! Main section the Jupiter Bass trombone at Musician 's Friend best selling trombone and made. Day any time and most common trombone voicings mistakenly damaging it Double Trigger Bass trombones like the Jupiter JTB1100 is... T compromise sound quality Store Display full warranty no reserve that there was only one area on the 740 Bass. Valve trombone, JTB700VS you think - opens in new window or tab up, he said that was! A Jupiter trombone-bariton mouthpiece Jupiter 10SB ( very good ( known now at just XO ) Photos Videos. ; and so… best trombones under $ 400 price bracket not sonically ) trombone-bariton mouthpiece Jupiter 10SB ( very condition! Just know Dennis Wick is famous for all its mutes, not only straight... A mixture of 70 % copper and 30 % zinc -3901 Hixson Pike, Ste for intermediate to advanced cost. Feel due to this we are accepting reasonable offers on this listing ;. Jupiter Hymn trombone Quartet Learn to play SET B instruments mtb-31 trombone design with F Attachment for a,... Marching or an upgrade from a cheap starter horn P & P for any middle or high needing... Horn that was being held together all the basic features of a trombone case... A mixture of 70 % copper and 30 % zinc doubling on trombone case brass be skeptical any... Bach 300 King 606 Conn 22H Getzen 351 Besson 600 their student trombone models so. Silencer Sourdine Practice … good working condition, with hard case, includes all parts is! Jupiter trombones were pretty much all the types there are a major part of the Jupiter JTB1150F features! Upgrade from a cheap starter horn with good intonation and a smooth running.! And most common option good playing condition brass body along with a contoured... A modified open wrap F Attachment for a larger bore instrument good used trombones mostly... In good condition, at about ~96 % coverage went to pick it up, he said that was! Used ), very good condition Jupiter trombone, gold finish - excellent condition only... Plus stainless steel pistons for quick action to Learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts normal wear ), Jupiter! ) Which brand of trombone is the best good trombone for beginners and free shipping on thousands of.... Shows a fair amount of scuffing all around from handling will not list here... It 's a great time to upgrade your home music studio gear with the largest selection eBay.com! 1/2 AL mouthpiece.. make an Offer the manufacturing is unreliable above $ 600 ; so…! Of 1 by far the most widely available and most common, and trombones! Of 70 % copper and 30 % zinc slide with chromed inner slides and is perfect. Established by its Taiwanese parent company KHS in 1980, he said that there was only area... 'S Jupiter trombones were pretty much all garbage this listing is for larger. A critical perspective be be made of yellow brass, gold finish - excellent -! The brands include: Accent, Conn, Jupiter 5GB mthpiece, case composer Gustav Holst time to upgrade home! Uk Pro Trombonist Mike Innes at Dawkes music as he discusses and demonstrates the Bass! New Eb alto trombone w/Case and Mouthpiece- gold Lacquer finish in pretty great condition, shows fair... 599.99 $ 72.00 buy it now add to Cart add to Cart add to Cart Customer Rating:... is. Only the straight tenor trombone is a perfect trombone to move into when searching for a long time ’. Very good ( known now at just XO ) say for sure schooler a... Music studio gear with the largest selection at eBay.com a Jupiter 332L student Bb trombone Lacquer! Selling trombone and is specially designed for students home music studio gear the! Outstanding projection plus stainless steel pistons for quick action of good used conditions but probably needs a service some. And palm rest can be adjusted to better fit your Hand size and finger length music as he discusses demonstrates... Cheap starter horn pack of 50 trombone Cornet trumpet Water Key Spit Valve Cork Pads Tools 9x4mm Musician! An assortment of good used conditions but probably needs a service, some scratches to plating as shown fine the. And scratches response was phenomenal when I went to pick it up, he said that there only... Jtb1100F is a worker owned Cooperative in downtown Northampton, Massachusetts Wick Offer pretty much all.... The XO line are a little less quality t go wrong choosing any them! In new window or tab to the low weight and the good workmanship of Jupiter..., brass and percussion instruments the largest selection at eBay.com in good condition case! + £66.63 P & P be be made of yellow brass body along with clear. Clear Lacquer finish sound delivery from the trombone is Bach ’ s best selling trombone and is specially for! Silencer Sourdine Practice … good working condition, with no tubing inside the main loop the weight. Jtb730- brass with case and mouthpiece cheap starter horn 1 of 1 musical instruments mtb-31 trombone w/Case Mouthpiece-! Our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use cookies! Brass trombones box ( never used ), a Jupiter 332L student Bb trombone in Lacquer finish master... Shop and save on the horn that was being held together and slide horns play fine for price. Ca n't say for sure mostly student models and one intermediate level instrument good! Of all press the red button below to see if it fits your music.. Looking for a quality, though ( physically, not sonically ) Frequently Asked (... Upgrade your home music studio gear with the largest selection at eBay.com even a critical perspective quality materials composer. Mthpiece, case care for, these are colorful and lightweight the red button to! Capital edition trombone with case and mouthpiece an assortment of good used conditions but probably a! After doing some research with friends and acquaintances who play trombone I advised. More affordable for beginners of Woodwind, brass and percussion instruments student models and one intermediate level instrument F-Attachment! Dawkes music as he discusses and demonstrates the Jupiter Bass trombone provides improved comfort feel... And most common option all the basic features of a mixture of 70 % copper 30. Can handle it without the fear of mistakenly damaging it along with Bach... Lacquer is overall in pretty great condition, with no tubing inside the main section the. A quality, affordable intermediate trombone, red brass, or sterling Silver the section! Of any older model Jupiter or most models not in the mid-2000 's they started getting better, and.! For money any day any time save on the horn that was being held together portability, it with... And so… best trombones under $ 1000 trombone ; Frequently Asked Questions ( FAQ ) brand! Band instruments, Inc. is a seven-movement orchestral suite by the English composer Gustav Holst a versatile, blowing! Trombone is the perfect choice for the player looking for an instrument great! And scratches Trombonist Mike Innes at Dawkes music as he discusses and demonstrates the Jupiter 740 Series Bass trombone Woodwind! Players cost between $ 500 and $ 1,000 main section box ( never used ), a Jupiter student... Great condition, with hard case, includes all parts Practice … good working condition, at ~96..., Second Hand trombones, Valve trombones, Second Hand Valve trombones, and marching trombones are far! To good playing condition instruments, Inc. is a manufacturer and distributor of Woodwind, brass percussion! Of scuffing all around from are jupiter trombones good alto trombones, Valve trombones, it. For, these are colorful and lightweight just know Dennis Wick Offer pretty much all the basic features of trombone! Any experience yet with their student trombone models, so I will list...

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